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楼主
 发表于 2014-3-4 00:36:53 | 只看该作者 
Pré - 1600s Originally, Taiwan was settled by people of Malay-Polynesian descent. The Dutch brought in Chinese laborers as migrant workers. Eventually, more settled, and married aborigine wives. Thus a new race was born: the Taiwanese. The Japanese Period (1895~1945) Educational system was built up to the same level as in Japan, infrastructure, trains, roads, industry etc. were developed extensively. in 1943, the Allied Powers held the Cairo Conference, decided to agree with 蒋介石's request that Taiwan be returned to China. But it occurred without any presence/agreement/representatives of the Taiwanese people. When the War actually ended in 1945, the Allied powers agreed that 蒋's troops would "temporarily occupy Taiwan, on behalf of the Allied forces." Soon the Taiwanese turned into sorrow and anger ~~~~ the newcomers from China turned out to be corrupt, repressive, and uncivilized. After World War II (1945~1975) In 1947, When a small incident in 台北 led to large-scale demonstrations. The KMT was initially taken aback, but secretly sent troops from China, which started to round up and execute a whole generation of leading figures, students, lawyers, doctors. In all, scholars estimate that up to 28.000 people were killed, and during the "white terror" of the following years, thousands more were arrested, imprisoned, tortured, and murdered by the KMT's highly efficient KGB-machine, the Taiwan 驻军. In 1949, 蒋介石 lost the war on the mainland, and fled to Taiwan. For the next four decades, the people of Taiwan lived under 戒嚴 . The Chinese mainlanders who came over with 蒋介石 constituted only 15 percent of the population of the island, but were able to rule 85 percent native Taiwanese through tight control of the political system, police, military, educational system and media. During this period, 140,000 people were imprisoned or executed for being perceived as anti-KMT or pro-Communist. Many citizens were arrested, tortured, imprisoned and executed for their real or perceived link to the Communists The ROC remained under martial law from 1948 until 1987 and much of the constitution was not in effect. Political reforms beginning in the late 1970. In 1962, Taiwan had a (nominal) per-capita GNP of $170, placing its economy on a par with those of Zaire and Congo. The 2nd worst in Asia where the worst in Communist China. This is how it was done by 蒋介石 between 1949~1962 (13 years). In the 1970s, Taiwan was economically the second fastest growing state in Asia after Japan. Taiwan, along with Hong Kong, South Korea and Singapore. Thanks to 蒋經国. After 蒋介石 died 蒋經国 Consolidates democracy and pass onto 李登輝.
Today, under democracy system for 40 years Taiwan economy fell way behind South Korea, Hong Kong & Singapore. Thus, a question comes up ... Does democracy workable to 漢 chinese today?
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 楼主| 发表于 2014-3-5 19:19:03 | 只看该作者
HC1265 发表于 2014-3-4 21:50
Democracy is definitely better, if the population are well educated, good common sense, stop argui ...
Well said ... well said to all of you. DD, Ben, Chef123, HC1265, Happy ..... plus myself.
[Finally ... we reach the SAME]
Democracy is final destination. But ......
1. The population must reach a minimum education level.
(actually if sucess No.1 then, No. 2 would come natually)
2. The population must reach a minimum standard of living.
In general, education teaches people : sharing, friendly, hard-working towards goals, polite, dual respects, family value, religious free .... etc.
Even if you/we have good education you/we can't be BRAIN-WASHED. See my subject "Religious and Politians"
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楼主| 发表于 2014-3-4 06:06:51 | 只看该作者
Ben2009 发表于 2014-3-3 16:34
Will democracy work for the Chinese? Since most of us here are Chinese, the answer will be biased. S ...
Ben 哥: I like your points very much ....
(1)democracy had to take centuries to reach a working stage
(2)to be imposed by an outside power
(3)There are many prerequisites for a nation/society to achieve before it is ready for democracy. Most nations/societies lack some or most of them. Adopting a democratic system will just be a recipe for chaos and disaster
(4)United States, is steadily turning away from democratic ideals and becoming ever more fascist.
(5)Democracy requires so many factors to function. It requires an educated population that is aware and pro-active. Otherwize some 野心家 will come along and turn it into another dictatorship
(6)If the nation/society is made up of many sub-groups with their own selfish agendas, democracy will never work.
Well said ....... 
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 发表于 2014-3-4 05:42:16 | 只看该作者
HC1265 发表于 2014-3-3 13:08
I believe you forgotten the biggest group coming to Taiwan:
Under Cheng Sing Kung who chased out the ...
Democracy requires so many factors to function. It requires an educated population that is aware and pro-active. Otherwize some 野心家 will come along and turn it into another dictatorship. It requires a military that is kept on a tight leash and doesn't develop an ambition to take over by force. It requires that their are no highly divisive issues that will split the nation/society apart. Case in point, the current political crisis in the Ukraine is due to the Western half identifying with the West, while the Eastern half identifies with Russia. Similarly, it requires that there are no religious or ethnic fault lines. Most importantly, it requires a sense of unity among most of the population that they are willing to work together constructively to build their country. If the nation/society is made up of many sub-groups with their own selfish agendas, democracy will never work.
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| 沙发
发表于 2014-3-4 02:08:20 | 只看该作者
I believe you forgotten the biggest group coming to Taiwan:
Under Cheng Sing Kung who chased out the Dutch in 16th Century.
Mainly from Fukin, this group make up over 60% of modern Taiwanese.
Frankly democracy will not work for 漢 chinese at least for now!
Why, too many different ideas, confucius culture never encouraged compromise,
democracy is simply not understood, accepting western ideas without questions.
Until people are more educated in responsibility, rights, working together, making deals, etc
democracy will do more harm than good.
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| 板凳
发表于 2014-3-4 05:34:58 | 只看该作者
Will democracy work for the Chinese? Since most of us here are Chinese, the answer will be biased. So lets take a step back and ask, does democracy work for most of the nations that adopted it.
I would say no. Democracy in practice works only slightly better than communism. Of course fervent supporters of democracy may say that those failures are not "true democracy", but the same argument can be made for communists nations/societies that failed. That's why I stress the point, "in practice".
So lets see. Nations/societies where democracy works are limited to a handful of "Western nations" (which also include Japan, Australia, and a few others not geographically located in the West), and even then, democracy had to take centuries to reach a working stage, or it had to be imposed by an outside power (Japan's political structure was imposed by the US after WWII).
On the other hand, the majority of nations/societies that embraced democracy fail miserably. They become incredibly corrupt and inefficient, or worse, are constantly embroiled in bitter infighting, military coups, etc..
There are many prerequisites for a nation/society to achieve before it is ready for democracy. Most nations/societies lack some or most of them. Adopting a democratic system will just be a recipe for chaos and disaster.
In fact, we can already see, even the supposed model democracy of the world, United States, is steadily turning away from democratic ideals and becoming ever more fascist. Who knows, in 50 years time, maybe it will cease being a "democracy" as we know it; even now, its more of a 2-party dictatorship than real democracy. |
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| 5#
楼主| 发表于 2014-3-4 05:51:40 | 只看该作者
HC1265 发表于 2014-3-3 13:08
I believe you forgotten the biggest group coming to Taiwan:
Under Cheng Sing Kung who chased out the ...
Brother HC1265 ..... Yeah ... You understand my point.
Democracy is good to everybody whom has well education, compromise, open, pertain 求同存異. [I am not refuse democracy but it's just not the right time for now]
漢 chinese whom has confucius culture =NO. Particularily those old people lived in Taiwan and Hong Kong. Even worse in HKG is that those old adult passed on such to younger generation.
So lucky that we live in this country (Canada). Don't we find ourselves more civilise than those HKG/TAIWANESE?
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| 7#
发表于 2014-3-4 06:16:14 | 只看该作者
oh sh*t. u guys r hardcore, this is like formal history lesson, at least 3rd year uni level to me. not that i am impatient, just can't concentrate, too much information, too complicated for me.
i might be super biased due to limited knowledge in the field, but if u ask me, i will take democracy over others any time. |
| coldfeet before the trip, it will be over soon, but so much can happen in a blink of an eye, let alone weeks. dont let me down sweetie, u gonna completely alter my lifepath once u step into that house
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| 8#
发表于 2014-3-4 07:06:01 | 只看该作者
happypooning 发表于 2014-3-3 17:16
oh sh*t. u guys r hardcore, this is like formal history lesson, at least 3rd year uni level to me. n ...
I don't blame you. Most people these days have little regard for humanities subjects. Its considered a waste of time if you study those in university because its engineering, finance, etc., are where the good jobs are. But you need knowledge of history, politics, and sociology to understand the world we live in.
Many Chinese / HKers immediately think of democracy as a good thing. Ironically, despite their protests against 國民教育/洗腦教育 they are actually quite brainwashed themselves. The reason why "democracy = good" to them is simple.
1) When ppl think democracy, they think US, Canada, UK, France, etc.. They don't think India, Pakistan, Egypt, Russia, Colombia, and all the many many nations that either adopted democracy or had democracy imposed by an outside force.
2) Many ppl cheer for democracy but don't even understand what democracy truly is. They don't even realize that a nation/society could theoretically be democratic and communist at the same time. The former is a way of governance, the latter is an economic arrangement, there is no contradiction between the two. Democratic societies does not necessarily have to have capitalist economies. In fact, nations with a strong welfare system and highly re-distributive taxation systems are in essence semi-communistic.
3) They don't realize that democracy is a very fragile system of governance that may not stand the test of time. Without an understanding of history, they simply have no context. |
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| 9#
发表于 2014-3-4 09:51:09 | 只看该作者
Ben2009 发表于 2014-3-3 18:06
I don't blame you. Most people these days have little regard for humanities subjects. Its considere ...
ok ben sir, i really appreciate u explained this to me, but way too much for me to digest, but Russia is democratic? i thought it's Communist .
how can a country be democratic and communist at the same time, even "theoretically"
democracy is a very fragile system?? interesting concept |
| coldfeet before the trip, it will be over soon, but so much can happen in a blink of an eye, let alone weeks. dont let me down sweetie, u gonna completely alter my lifepath once u step into that house
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| 10#
发表于 2014-3-4 11:09:10 | 只看该作者
| Break absolute power of government, give people more freedom first, and then....... |
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发表于 2014-12-25 20:08:28
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