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| 电梯直达[url=] [/url]
楼主
 发表于 2014-2-3 00:23:30 | 只看该作者 
A lot of chinese acknowleged he is 暴君 and subsided he is hero also. IMO he is hero and not 暴君.
HERO
秦始皇 able to start and finish his job (to unify china from seven states). This elimate killing from each other and form a big family.
He constructed a structure (长城) that continue stand still and continue appraised in world architect. This wall stopped threats coming from north at that years.
His 兵马 sculpture steal another shows in world stage.
His "All"房宫 still beneath ground whom 考古學家 believe that it is another great structure to be unfold.
暴君
Dealth tolls by contructing great wall for sure lesser than possible killings by north invaders. It stopped more cruel/pain in battle field in long years.
Infamous burning oif books/scholars incident, which has been criticized greatly by subsequent scholars [see note below]
His straight forwarding looking similar to today's Steve Job. The end of scarify is success (whom 秦始皇 truly demonstrated, per history).
NOTE: Paper not invented yet. Communcations/education passed on by embedded 竹/板 that result lesser people understand the situation. Scholars from all states started 宣傳. To stop this (in order to go forward) they must be killed (also not enough jail for them).
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 楼主| 发表于 2014-3-10 04:29:55 | 只看该作者
万年古佛 发表于 2014-3-9 14:32
我们说一个人残暴与否， 是从人性的角度来讨论和评价人或事。
残暴和有所作为并不矛盾， 残暴者可以有所 ...
萬年兄, 高见高见
从人性的角度来讨论和评价 ~~~ yes. 秦始皇 is 残暴 to 焚书坑儒.
That's I want to look at him from another angle ........ 从政治和朝代更替或其他角度来讨论.
Also, 秦始皇 set 基礎 (in 15 years) to 漢,唐統治 1,000 years combine. Since, we noticed ourselves 漢人 or 唐人
朝代更迭，国家兴衰，表面视乎某一个或几个人起决定作用， 其实不然，它是有自己的客观发展规律的。~~~ Not much agree this. As I see it is determined by a "few" people in administration. If you want go further to this let's go to "蔣 and KMT/共產黨".
至于Confucius scholars 如何能主宰中国数千年，也是有它的客观规律决定的，存在就是合理 ~~~ Not much agree either. Chinese just not able to jump out from this. Western people has no Confucius that doesn't mean they are 不合理. [Western 思想 known by Chinese as early as 1600] You and me live in Canada that we noticed Confucius really pulling our ancestors' leg.
这是我个人观点，欢迎各位高见。
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楼主| 发表于 2014-3-10 01:13:14 | 只看该作者
happypooning 发表于 2014-3-9 10:28
of course he is 暴君. he is the chinese version of Hitler.
he is the most perfect example of tyrant ...
焚书坑儒 是何等残暴， 不只是杀人， 而是杀了人类的文化和历史遗产。 ~~~ Let's focus on this subject for now.
This happened 2,500 years ago. By that time no paper no printing no pen. Can you tell how many 儒 in China? One in hundred? Or one in Thousand?
秦始皇 unified 7 states then there are quite a large numbers of 儒 (non-秦) dislike him [not sure if you agree this?]. These group of 儒 became anti-government forces. They taugt ignorants and demand rebel/counter-fight. Conflicts became furious. {Don't you see this happen/repeat immediately after 清 collapsed. By that time we have 毛澤東 arised and won the final battle in mainland}
戰國時代, 刀劍 is everything. Human life is not much better than an animal. LAW/JAIL/JUDGE system is not developed. Dealth/kill is the only sentence. Not China alone. The whole WORLD is like this (including Europe and middle east). Of course it would be recorded as BAD thing by 儒 since. I would say it is a normal course in order to enrich power. And nothing extraordinary for 秦始皇 doing so (as he wants to chair as King onward).
As BenGor said ... 儒 always able to find a way back. By now, 孔子 is not perfect by today's philosophy. Good 儒 enrich building. Bad 儒 construct destruction.
HITLER .... A German. Don't you noticed German is one of the best 民族 in human. Why German follows HITLER? Do you want a SEPERATE subject for us to talk about?
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| 沙发
发表于 2014-2-3 01:51:12 | 只看该作者
秦始皇, he was a great leader & 暴君.
His contribution was unique, his rule of Law should be admired today.
After him, 2 thousand years of Cunfucius ideals has Chinese tilted towards more selfish, less aggressive,
more corruptive, unadventureous, uninnovative.
Let's looked at him from both angle. |
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| 板凳
 发表于 2014-2-3 14:10:22 | 只看该作者
Difficult question. The way I see it. He tried to accomplish too much in too little time. That would necessitate the use of force to suppress opposition. All progress is always met with opposition from vested interest.
Just by example, it would be as if the next mayor of Toronto tried to re-build the entire Gardener Expressway, drastically expand the subway system, repair or upgrade most of our city infrastructure, and do all this within one term of office. |
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| 地板
楼主| 发表于 2014-2-3 21:41:03 | 只看该作者
清廷于康熙十二年（1673年）下令撤藩。吴三桂闻讯后叛清。自称周王、联合平南王世子尚之信、靖南王耿精忠及广西将军孙延龄、陕西提督王辅臣等以反清复明为号召起兵反清，挥军入桂、川、湘、闽、粤诸省，战乱波及赣、陕、甘等省，史称三藩之乱，康熙十七年（1678年），吴三桂在湖南衡州称帝，国号大周，建元昭武。其本人也开始蓄发，改穿明朝衣冠。同年秋在长沙病死 。其孙吴世璠 继位 ，退据云南 。康熙二十年（1681年）昆明被围，吴世璠自杀，余众出降。吴三桂的子孙后代被彻底杀光。包括襁褓中的婴儿。《清史稿》有吴三桂本传。
"吴三桂的子孙后代被彻底杀光。包括襁褓中的婴儿" is really cruel. It done purposely.
Art of cruelty that era includes 斬頭, 五馬分屍. Even back to 20,000 years ago you probably heard 人吃人. Today 2014, even kick/hit a cat is against law (see u in jail). Just back to 2,500 years ago human life is just a little better than animals. A large portion of human wasn't educated. They knew only work and eat. By that time justice/law system doesn't exist. Whoever holding a sword then he represent law.
Without telephone/internet 秦始皇 not know what had happened thousand miles away. Each group (thousand of them whom are leading hundreds of slaves) leader(s) work their own to carryout the mission/job. Some of them kind and some of them evil. A lot of people die (not killed). Of course 秦始皇 could not erase claim of 不知者不罪.
In such short period of time to carryout such large amount of work (including govern people in 7 states). I would say it is BAD planning rather than cruel. The worst case is that he burned books and killed scholars. That makes him being recorded not as bad as 康熙 (mentioned above).
From today's angle no doubt 秦始皇 is 邪恶 in human history. During 茶餘饭后 it is not a bad idea for 2nd review to this 暴君?
暴君: Is a person whom contains power and fond of killing (whomever against his will).
邪恶: Is a subject not in line of normal course. The derailment ends up disaster/death/bad and unacceptable.
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| 5#
楼主| 发表于 2014-3-9 21:57:34 | 只看该作者
I have this subject for 万佛兄 concerning 秦始皇. Welcome for further comments (with points/opinions) ..
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| 6#
发表于 2014-3-9 22:35:40 | 只看该作者
He unified the monetary system, writings, ...
Without him, how much longer will "ancient Chinese" take to be unified?
"Iron fist" is the easiest way to achieve what he wanted to achieve.
The opposite is like Toronto, should we build subway?
Study -> vote -> decision -> new government -> repeat cycle
When I was a student in early 80s, already there's talked about subway to York U. I think when I retired, it is still "in progress". If 秦始皇 was here, it will be done in "short time"!  |
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| 7#
楼主| 发表于 2014-3-9 23:00:01 | 只看该作者
curious 发表于 2014-3-9 09:35
He unified the monetary system, writings, ...
Without him, how much longer will "ancient Chinese" ta ...
好奇兄 ~~ . Glad to know you can see BAD and GOOD side of a "thing/person".
"Iron fist" is the easiest way to achieve what he wanted to achieve : All achievement built upon scarifice.
Brought down trees/dig up ground ------ to build road/house.
Invest time/money in school ------ to obtain education.
Burn coal (污染 air) ------ for energy to heat houses or turn-on machines.
One signle 清場 in 天安門 on 1989-Jun 04 ------ End/last from happen again.
秦始皇 is not really that BAD in his 15 years of power. I am not saying he is GOOD but just saying he is not that bad. If you can find/see his GOOD side that means you are albe to see THINGS/PERSONS from all angles. |
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| 8#
发表于 2014-3-9 23:20:24 | 只看该作者
tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-9 08:57
I have this subject for 万佛兄 concerning 秦始皇. Welcome for further comments (with points/opinion ...
焚书坑儒 是何等残暴， 不只是杀人， 而是杀了人类的文化和历史遗产。 |
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| 9#
发表于 2014-3-9 23:28:55 | 只看该作者
of course he is 暴君. he is the chinese version of Hitler.
he is the most perfect example of tyrant.
i particularly agree with "焚书坑儒 是何等残暴， 不只是杀人， 而是杀了人类的文化和历史遗产。"
not only, he killed whole bunch of ppl, he "killed" our culture our history, who knows Chinese might be even better today if he hadn't done what he did
sorry tom兄, have to disagree with u this time. as much as i like u and knowing this is ur thread, i am still gonna say what i believe  |
| coldfeet before the trip, it will be over soon, but so much can happen in a blink of an eye, let alone weeks. dont let me down sweetie, u gonna completely alter my lifepath once u step into that house
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| 10#
发表于 2014-3-10 00:13:42 | 只看该作者
tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-9 10:00
好奇兄 ~~ . Glad to know you can see BAD and GOOD side of a "thing/person".
"Iron fist ...
That's why I like the movie "Hero" by Jet Li. It showed one side of 秦始皇 that rarely being discussed. Since in Form 1 in HK, we learned that he is a 暴君! All we highlighted are the bad things about him and then we learned about all the good things about other emperor such as Lau Bong, (sorry never learned how to type Chinese). That's unfair. Both has done GOOD and BAD things. Why we have to label one as being a 暴君 and the other is a good emperor.
I am not sure if he "killed our culture our history" as Happypooning said. To me, he just created another culture (or unified most of the culture centered, of course, around his own idea). At the end, it shaped part of the current Chinese culture.
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发表于 2014-12-25 19:42:21
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