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毛择东. A perfect opportunist. [tomsiu]

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发表于 2014-12-25 19:25:04 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
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楼主
发表于 2014-2-5 21:49:03 | 只看该作者


毛. 1893~1976. Born/raise in poor family. He stopped his education at age 13.
In 1920 (age 27) He formed CCP with 马克思 platform [I doubted he understands the entire contents that time]. Soon he gathered the support from the roots and/or immature students. With joining of 周因来, 刘少奇 etc. then CCP further gaining attractions by 蒋.
During sino-Jap war CCP avoid the frontline battle and doing itching at back. After the war (1945) the balance of power switched to in favor of CCP. 毛 intends to say peace to 蒋 but refused. 蒋 even launched the attack & was defeated. 蒋 escaped to Taiwan with help of US in 1949.
毛 believes 马克思 work/success which 刘少奇 don't think so. 刘少奇 got killed at the end. 邓 subsided then.
After 毛's supporter Russia retreated in late 1950's China fell into deep trouble economically. His throne in danger. In 1966 毛 lauches rebel again by using immature students [红卫兵]. With downloaded power 红卫兵 crashed 40 million chinese people to death in 10 years.

I do not say 毛 is hero but opportunist. His story very similar to whom we knew by swimming across from 深镇河 to reach HK with hand holding an inflated(air)-donut. With little knowledge/education background but work hard to reach noble-level like lifestyle. They uses all kind of "tricks" to protect themselves from elimination. 毛 considers 时势做英雄.









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发表于 2014-3-13 05:41:06 | 只看该作者


tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-12 07:39
Mao also needs ass-lickers like you. ~~~~~ DD .... no no no no. No use this kind of wording... BenGo ...


Thanks Dr Siu, its true, there is no need to get emotional. We are here to partake in friendly intellectual discussion.

I forgot where I read it, but someone once said, if Mao died in the 50s before he launched the Great Leap forward, he may very well be remembered as the greatest leader China ever had. If he had died in the 60s before the Cultural Revolution, he may still be remembered as a great leader who committed a big mistake due to ignorance. But dying in the 70s after the Great Leap Forwarded devastated China materially, and the Cultural Revolution which was not so much a revolution but rather a "cultural demolition", Mao's legacy is one of a selfish tyrant who caused permanent irreparable damage to China.

As for the 10 year term now served by Chinese leaders. I agree, its very imporant. 10 years is about right. If a leader holds on to power for too long, he will be corrupted by power (just like Mao), and it will be too hard to topple him even if he is doing damage to the country. On the other hand, short term administration is not enough to carry out policies. Just like in Canada, nothing ever gets accomplished because each new administration always wants to reverse whatever the previous was doing, and instead implement their own plans & visions, but they won't have time to complete it before another administration comes in and does the same thing to them.





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发表于 2014-3-12 20:22:20 | 只看该作者


HC1265 发表于 2014-3-11 11:38
No leader can achieve everything. He did make mistakes.
However, he did unite China under very dif ...


You are correct Sir.      Every leader has his pros/cons.   They catch their time in history to serve a specific purpose.   Mao did alot stupid and horrible things but like you said he was the only one who united and stood up for China against foreign powers. And cared about the poor.      But he too became corrupt, self serving and failed to evolve China to the modern ages.





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  楼主| 发表于 2014-3-9 21:46:03 | 只看该作者


dragondick 发表于 2014-3-9 07:24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaulgsZMVMw


DD, the video has 21 minutes. Depicted Mainland-China between 1949 to now. All are NEGATIVE shots narrated in Cantonese (traditional characters subtitle). Here I look at it positively (not sure if you could?)

Between 1911~1949 (38 years) More than 50 million chinese Killed by/in 軍閥/戰爭.
Between 1949~1976 (27 years) During 毛 era nearly another 50 million chinese killed with rig of 共產主義.

After 毛 die China entered new form of managment (no 共產 anymore). Since 1976 China entered to 10-year-term of leadership.
1976~now (38 years) How many people die or killed?

1. 法輪功 has to be stopped. It was another gathering of 无知 pilgrims
2. Coal energy. China has no choice to use coal as energy. What else she can use (for factory/household) by that time or now?
3. Tibet/新姜 issues. This is 必然 in early stage of 佔據. Different kind of 民族.
4. 豆腐渣房子. Houses were built in rush in fast paced enconomy. Needed to slow down.
5. 腐敗/貧富extreme. Everywhere mostly including USA, Thailand etc.
6. 1989 Jun 04. The best 清場 in last 100 year in Chinese history. It was stopped (with very minimum dealth) and never seen/happen again.
7. 环境污染. Arise in fast paced enconomy. Needed to slow down.
8. 婴儿毒奶粉. Millions of baby affected. Luckily only caused 6 dealth.
9. 维權人. This kind of people knowing a little & trying to pursuit their own "personal gain". They knew there are quite a big crowd of 无知 pilgrims on the streets.

[If you don't mind I can discuss with you EACH one of them (total nine)]

DD,
Read history is good. But would it be better if you UNDERSTAND it? Do you have some POSITIVE shot(s)/video(s) concerning 大陸-China? (such as new bridges, china-made cars, apartments, space machines, new technology ....  etc).

  





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发表于 2014-2-6 11:09:34 | 只看该作者


Mao was a power-hungry madman, but i don't think its fair to blame 張學良 for failing to predict this when he saved Mao's ass by kidnapping Chiang.





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沙发
发表于 2014-2-6 05:13:35 | 只看该作者


Mao was a tyrant in Chinese history.  Without the Si-an Incident, he would have perished & would not have survived.  He was, of course, saved by your hero -- 張學良.

When Mao & his followers were surrounded & facing elimination, his propaganda slogan was
"中國人不打中國人" which many people bought, so he survived.

However, Mao was reponsible for 鬥爭,清算,下放,三反,五反,紅衛兵,勞改,文化大革命, etc., in which millions of Chinese were executed, starved to death, or left to die + millions of families dislodged & separated.  

With 20/20 hindsight, I will change Mao's survival slogan to “中國人不打中國人, 但我必殺中國人".

After his death, Deng came to power, & started economic reforms & opened Chinese doors for investment & international trade, but Chinese economy was stagnant, even regressed under Mao & at least 25 years were lost.

Just imagine what China would be like 25 years from now.  That is the damage/horrific destruction of Mao's legacy to China.





One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind - Neil Armstrong, JUL21 1969.
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地板
发表于 2014-2-6 15:03:00 | 只看该作者


張學良 is a "real heart plastic".





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5#
发表于 2014-2-6 18:18:19 | 只看该作者


Ben2009 发表于 2014-2-5 22:09
Mao was a power-hungry madman, but i don't think its fair to blame 張學良 for failing to predict thi ...


When 張學良 was released from house arrest, he was free to go anywhere.  CCP heralded him as a hero/saviour & invited him to return or even visit the new China.  He refused, decided to move to Hawaii to spend his remaining years.  This is the only indication that he regretted the Incident.

After the Incident, he escorted CKS back to Nanjing, fully aware that he will be punished.  This showed that 不愧為好漢,因為一人做事一人當!





One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind - Neil Armstrong, JUL21 1969.
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  楼主| 发表于 2014-2-6 20:10:37 | 只看该作者


張學良 saves 共産黨 at the end (not 毛 alone) .... sigh.

毛 neither scholar or 军佬. Similar to 刘帮 in 汉朝.
毛 able to gather 贫农,草根, (无知) 学生. These group of people grew bigger and bigger along 蒋 stays longer and longer in power. [means 蒋 allowing these group of people switched to against him ...sigh ** unnecessary footnote** sigh]
毛 able to gather/let  周因来/刘少奇 to work for him (two known, per history, great leaders in economical/political reform). They both choose not to work for 蒋. 毛/周/刘, by luck ends/stops the 军阀 reborn. [军阀 causing million of deaths in nearly 50 years ..... sigh**unnecessary footnote** again]
毛 finally delivered 共産 to chinese. He insists it'll work even before he died. [Actually 周/刘 don't think so]
毛 acknowledged he has no educational background and allowing 周/刘 take over after he took the throne.

BAD side of 毛
毛 knew only 共産 (nothing else but 马克思). It did work at begin (maybe by luck). But but but ...... it won't work and never would work. He even killed 刘. He orders 江清/红卫兵 to regain his diminishing power non-stop until his death.
毛 nurtured power same as 蒋. As well as any other Kings.

If (I say if) he stepped down 1959 (10 years term) definately he is a hero in history.

Note:  共産 sounds work if everybody (particularily贫农,草根, [无知]学生) has nothing. Therefore they going to work for SOMETHING. Once they have SOMETHING they won't give/share out for nothing. If you interested let's open a seperate subject later.








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发表于 2014-3-9 20:24:05 | 只看该作者


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaulgsZMVMw


The first half of the video depicts Mao's (the tyrant) crime against the Chinese.  As a individual, Mao's policies and actions accounted for more Chinese deaths &/or dislodged families, second only to the Japanese invasion of China.  





One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind - Neil Armstrong, JUL21 1969.
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发表于 2014-3-9 21:01:00 | 只看该作者


毛是一个超越人性的家伙,残暴,忘恩负义,政治骗子,秦始皇式封建暴君,心胸狭窄,忌贤妒能. 十年浩劫,扭曲了中国人的价值观,使人们丧失人性, 良知,家庭和亲情是中国最牢固的基本单位,他打破了它,使家庭和亲情反码成仇,还有什么人们不能干的,使人们良心丧尽,毛应该被永远钉在历史的十字架上。





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10#
发表于 2014-3-10 02:11:24 | 只看该作者


I would say Mao did one thing great no matter what.
China's destiny is in their own hands again after 150 years of foreign invasions.
Chiang could never achieve that.
In the long run Mao like VP Deng commented: 70% great, 30% mistake.





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 楼主| 发表于 2014-12-25 19:25:21 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2014-3-10 02:14:46 | 只看该作者



In the long history Moa as commented by VP Deng: 70% great, 30% mistake.





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  楼主| 发表于 2014-3-10 18:11:18 | 只看该作者


万年古佛 发表于 2014-3-9 08:01
毛是一个超越人性的家伙,残暴,忘恩负义,政治骗子,秦始皇式封建暴君,心胸狭窄,忌贤妒能. 十年浩劫,扭 ...


I pretty much agree what you had said: 毛是一个超越人性的家伙,残暴,忘恩负义,政治骗子. 心胸狭窄,忌贤妒能 ..... After 1959 when communism failed. He even killed 劉少奇. He allowed 江青 started 紅衛兵 era to enrich his power. He made no stop even noticed 40M death. As strong as 鄧 not even able to stop him. Luckily he died in 1976.

I would say Mao did one thing great no matter what. ~~~ This is true also. Mao able to have 劉,周,鄧 work for him. He accomplishes what 蔣 couldn't. [I always have a thought that if 周 (KMT) work along with 蔣 the result/history won't be same?]






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发表于 2014-3-10 19:09:07 | 只看该作者


tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-9 08:46
DD, the video has 21 minutes. Depicted Mainland-China between 1949 to now. All are NEGATIVE shots  ...



1.  法輪功 is just like yoga type exercise with mental overtures/meditation.  Another basic freedom.  Communism cannot stand any religion due to religious bodies' organizing ability & the control over the worshipers' thinking which Communism consider as their private domain.
2.  You missed the point completely.  The point is coal mining can be safer if there was less corruption.
3.  This part we agree.
4.  Another form of corruption.  All countries have building codes, whether Communist China has them or not I don't know, even if it has, they are not observed due to corruption.  Do you honestly believe only a few infants deaths were involved??
5.  Corruption is everywhere but Communist China has refined it to a new level, even the top brass wanted to reduce, if not stop it.  
6.  I am not familiar with this subject, so cannot comment.
7.  Environment pollution is more severe, again due to corrupt officials.
8.  Similar to #4 above.  All countries have food safety codes, I am sure Communist China has them too.  Non-compliance is again linked to corruption.  Do you honestly believe only a few infant deaths were involved??
9.  Communist China is never interested in human rights.  Putting it bluntly, Communist China is not yet ready for it yet, just like democracy.

Why ask me for positive videos,  why can't you do a search for a change or perhaps you knew that you cannot find any positive reviews??

Communist China spent billions on infrastructure, that was plus++++.  China-made cars are just a joke, are you serious that you want to talk about China-made cars!  Oh  yes, that should be under a different topic!





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  楼主| 发表于 2014-3-10 23:07:50 | 只看该作者


dragondick 发表于 2014-3-10 06:09
1.  法輪功 is just like yoga type exercise with mental overtures/meditation.  Another basic freedo ...


Why ask me for positive videos, ~~~~ A friendly advise to you (to see things from different angle). Hoping you would do so ...hehehe.....





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发表于 2014-3-11 00:38:30 | 只看该作者


HC1265 发表于 2014-3-9 13:11
I would say Mao did one thing great no matter what.
China's destiny is in their own hands again aft ...


If your great leader, Mao the tyrant, is still in charge, Communist China will stilll be having a per capita income of $150- equivalent to the most backward country in Africa, & a standard of living of end of 19th century!





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发表于 2014-3-11 00:48:42 | 只看该作者


tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-10 10:07
Why ask me for positive videos, ~~~~ A friendly advise to you (to see things from different angle) ...


If all Cantonese speaking videos are not objective (quite frankly, I don not understand your reasoning), then please show us a Mandarin-speaking video which you think is objective.  That is what I am asking!

May be you can produce one & post it on "youtube"??





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发表于 2014-3-11 07:13:33 | 只看该作者


tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-9 08:46
DD, the video has 21 minutes. Depicted Mainland-China between 1949 to now. All are NEGATIVE shots  ...


I have reviewed the video which I posted under #7 again, & I made it very clear that the first half of video was related to the topic started by you.

You brought up 9 points which had nothing to do with the topic of discussion.  Is this your way of denying that "鬥爭,清算,下放,三反,五反,紅衛兵,勞改,文化大革命, etc" which were orchestrated by Mao, never happened??





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  楼主| 发表于 2014-3-11 18:31:42 | 只看该作者


dragondick 发表于 2014-3-10 18:13
I have reviewed the video which I posted under #7 again, & I made it very clear that the first hal ...


Sigh ... It is (true). I already acknowledged Mao is "毛是一个超越人性的家伙,残暴,忘恩负义,政治骗子,秦始皇式封建暴君,心胸狭窄,忌贤妒能" . How ???? Because he did act "鬥爭,清算,下放,三反,五反,紅衛兵,勞改,文化大革命, etc". Sigh .... Why come to such detailing and repeating????

I repeat again (hopefully we can move on next subject !) :
毛是一个超越人性的家伙,残暴,忘恩负义,政治骗子,秦始皇式封建暴君,心胸狭窄,忌贤妒能 = TRUE
鬥爭,清算,下放,三反,五反,紅衛兵,勞改,文化大革命, = TRUE

Now, let's talk something else after 1976 (Mao died in 1976). Do you hv any video(s) for mainland after 1976? If possible please let's share those POSITIVE(s) ?

Our life/eyes must MOVE ON.







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发表于 2014-3-11 20:27:44 | 只看该作者


I will give you the honour of doing the search!





One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind - Neil Armstrong, JUL21 1969.
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发表于 2014-3-12 00:38:29 | 只看该作者


dragondick 发表于 2014-3-10 11:38
If your great leader, Mao the tyrant, is still in charge, Communist China will stilll be having a  ...



No leader can achieve everything. He did make mistakes.
However, he did unite China under very difficult situation.
China regained its own destiny free from foreign influences.
CKS copuld never achieve this!





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 楼主| 发表于 2014-12-25 19:25:40 | 显示全部楼层
毛择东. A perfect opportunist. [color=#999999 !important] [color=rgb(153, 153, 153) !important][复制链接]
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发表于 2014-3-12 00:51:12 | 只看该作者


tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-10 05:11
I pretty much agree what you had said: 毛是一个超越人性的家伙,残暴,忘恩负义,政治骗子. 心胸狭窄 ...


Unfortunately,   蔣 would not accept 周.
He only accepted "Yesman" in his inner circle, 心胸狭窄 worse than Mao.
He would dismiss 周, resulting in the same situation as today.

I agree he was 残暴, 政治骗子. However, like the First Emperor, Mao
had unique contribution in united China again.





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发表于 2014-3-12 01:09:46 | 只看该作者


dragondick 发表于 2014-3-10 06:09
1.  法輪功 is just like yoga type exercise with mental overtures/meditation.  Another basic freedo ...



法輪功 is definitely not a type of exercise, it is a religious cult.
Calling to topple the Chinese government, foreign powers to use force on China, even Japan is
her close ally. They are well funded by (?) distributing free daily newspaper in Chinese & English.
The religious leader lives in New York.
I see them everywhere, in HK, Taiwan, Europe, SE Asia, Macao, with anti-China signs.
Religion should be preaching forgiveness, peace, making up, not hate messages.
Read more on them unless you are one of them already!





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发表于 2014-3-12 20:09:34 | 只看该作者


HC1265 发表于 2014-3-11 12:09
法輪功 is definitely not a type of exercise, it is a religious cult.
Calling to topple the Chinese ...


Please provide documentary evidence re "Calling to topple the Chinese government, foreign powers to use force on China".  FLK members are not even armed, how can they topple a communist regime, wake up day dreamer.

Go do a search & find out the truth.

Day dreaming & fiction have no place here.

Organizing power of any religious bodies will not be tolerated in Communist China, that is why even the Catholic religion had to go underground for many years.








One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind - Neil Armstrong, JUL21 1969.
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发表于 2014-3-12 20:11:21 | 只看该作者


HC1265 发表于 2014-3-11 11:51
Unfortunately,   蔣 would not accept 周.
He only accepted "Yesman" in his inner circle, 心胸狭窄  ...


Mao also needs ass-lickers like you.

You call me names without being provoked, I can call you names too.  Now we are even!  





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发表于 2014-3-12 20:22:20 | 只看该作者


HC1265 发表于 2014-3-11 11:38
No leader can achieve everything. He did make mistakes.
However, he did unite China under very dif ...


You are correct Sir.      Every leader has his pros/cons.   They catch their time in history to serve a specific purpose.   Mao did alot stupid and horrible things but like you said he was the only one who united and stood up for China against foreign powers. And cared about the poor.      But he too became corrupt, self serving and failed to evolve China to the modern ages.





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发表于 2014-3-12 20:36:25 | 只看该作者


HC1265 发表于 2014-3-11 12:09
法輪功 is definitely not a type of exercise, it is a religious cult.
Calling to topple the Chinese ...



Read/review the following instead of fiction:

http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hant/%E6%B3%95%E8%BD%AE%E5%8A%9F


http://www.ntdtv.com/xtr/b5/2014/03/12/a1079269.html


http://falundafa.org/book/chigb/flg.htm


You can also start a new topic re FLK after review.





One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind - Neil Armstrong, JUL21 1969.
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  楼主| 发表于 2014-3-12 20:39:06 | 只看该作者


Mao also needs ass-lickers like you. ~~~~~ DD .... no no no no. No use this kind of wording... BenGor doesn't like it (me too).. If you object the statment you can do so but, not this kind of wording.

Mao did everything right/correct to pursuit his will. He won in 1949 (without supporters Mao would fail). He started communism (no proof that it'll fail by that time). 10 years after (1959) he re-tune it & failed again. In 1966 the most horrible things happened. 劉 was killed. 鄧 subsided. 紅衛兵 born. Mao totally crazy.

That's why 10-year-term is so important for administration. 鄧 made it happened.











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28#
发表于 2014-3-13 05:41:06 | 只看该作者


tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-12 07:39
Mao also needs ass-lickers like you. ~~~~~ DD .... no no no no. No use this kind of wording... BenGo ...


Thanks Dr Siu, its true, there is no need to get emotional. We are here to partake in friendly intellectual discussion.

I forgot where I read it, but someone once said, if Mao died in the 50s before he launched the Great Leap forward, he may very well be remembered as the greatest leader China ever had. If he had died in the 60s before the Cultural Revolution, he may still be remembered as a great leader who committed a big mistake due to ignorance. But dying in the 70s after the Great Leap Forwarded devastated China materially, and the Cultural Revolution which was not so much a revolution but rather a "cultural demolition", Mao's legacy is one of a selfish tyrant who caused permanent irreparable damage to China.

As for the 10 year term now served by Chinese leaders. I agree, its very imporant. 10 years is about right. If a leader holds on to power for too long, he will be corrupted by power (just like Mao), and it will be too hard to topple him even if he is doing damage to the country. On the other hand, short term administration is not enough to carry out policies. Just like in Canada, nothing ever gets accomplished because each new administration always wants to reverse whatever the previous was doing, and instead implement their own plans & visions, but they won't have time to complete it before another administration comes in and does the same thing to them.





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29#
发表于 2014-3-13 05:41:06 | 只看该作者


tomsiu 发表于 2014-3-12 07:39
Mao also needs ass-lickers like you. ~~~~~ DD .... no no no no. No use this kind of wording... BenGo ...


Thanks Dr Siu, its true, there is no need to get emotional. We are here to partake in friendly intellectual discussion.

I forgot where I read it, but someone once said, if Mao died in the 50s before he launched the Great Leap forward, he may very well be remembered as the greatest leader China ever had. If he had died in the 60s before the Cultural Revolution, he may still be remembered as a great leader who committed a big mistake due to ignorance. But dying in the 70s after the Great Leap Forwarded devastated China materially, and the Cultural Revolution which was not so much a revolution but rather a "cultural demolition", Mao's legacy is one of a selfish tyrant who caused permanent irreparable damage to China.

As for the 10 year term now served by Chinese leaders. I agree, its very imporant. 10 years is about right. If a leader holds on to power for too long, he will be corrupted by power (just like Mao), and it will be too hard to topple him even if he is doing damage to the country. On the other hand, short term administration is not enough to carry out policies. Just like in Canada, nothing ever gets accomplished because each new administration always wants to reverse whatever the previous was doing, and instead implement their own plans & visions, but they won't have time to complete it before another administration comes in and does the same thing to them.





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30#
发表于 2014-3-13 11:24:50 | 只看该作者


dragondick 发表于 2014-3-12 07:09
Please provide documentary evidence re "Calling to topple the Chinese government, foreign powers t ...


Have you read any of the newspaper, calling openly CCPmembers to resign and predicting
CCP & China to vanish. Not a word of love & peaceful dialog. Only hate messages. This is
a cult!

Catholics maybe tolerated, but not Roman Catholics. Of course the RC had a long history of
recognizing Manchu Kao & foreigner aggressor including the Japs! Read more.





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 楼主| 发表于 2014-12-25 19:25:54 | 显示全部楼层
毛择东. A perfect opportunist. [color=#999999 !important] [color=rgb(153, 153, 153) !important][复制链接]
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31#
发表于 2014-3-13 11:30:09 | 只看该作者


dragondick 发表于 2014-3-12 07:11
Mao also needs ass-lickers like you.

You call me names without being provoked, I can call you nam ...


You do have a temper resemblance to CKS's, that's why he failed so bad!





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32#
发表于 2014-3-13 11:34:47 | 只看该作者


Ben2009 发表于 2014-3-12 16:41
Thanks Dr Siu, its true, there is no need to get emotional. We are here to partake in friendly int ...


Now that's a civilized discussion in Toronto. No need to yell like HKers on TV.





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33#
发表于 2014-3-13 18:08:50 | 只看该作者


HC1265 发表于 2014-3-12 22:30
You do have a temper resemblance to CKS's, that's why he failed so bad!


You want to start this again, you ass-licker who claims  to have read history books & yet came up with the following ridiculous & nonsensical statements which you have not provided evidence:

1.  7-7 Incident was started by the Chinese.
2.  CKS was a failed stock broker when he started his career.
3.  US equipped Chinese army BETTER than its own army.
4.  Only Chinese from the North can be good leaders, CKS was a bad leader because he was from the south while your great leader Mao, the tyrant, was from Hunan & in your geography books, Hunan must be north of Chechiang.

I have a temper because I cannot stand ignorance & stupidity.






One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind - Neil Armstrong, JUL21 1969.
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34#
发表于 2014-3-14 00:25:58 | 只看该作者


dragondick 发表于 2014-3-13 05:08
You want to start this again, you ass-licker who claims  to have read history books & yet came up  ...



Even CKS had more to say dispite poor temper.





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35#
发表于 2014-3-14 04:14:51 | 只看该作者


Only a fool/idiot will make the 4 ridiculous statement in #33.

Just remember that we are discussing historical facts not fantasies.  Retract or shut up if you cannot substantiate your 4 statements!





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